10K Light Bashing

Hef · 11/29/2006, 06:46 AM

Been following a thread over in the vendor forum. Someone is complaining about the Photos posted by Reefer Madness and how the actual corals never look like the photos. Here is the Thread
Lots of opinions of course - both good and bad, Chris from Reefer Madness just posted this response last night. It very bluntly states that if you are running 10K lights (like me

that your corals will Never look like the photos at RM.
Dont know if I agree with what he says, but it is interesting reading.
Here is his response.
**************************************************
Hello there fellow Reefers,

I am not sure if I should stick my neck into this thread but I feel that I have to as there are so many folks out there with complaints about our photographs and the coresponding corals that supposedly accurately represent those corals.

There are so many factors to keeping corals that I can find myself getting lost when I try to give advice about placement, water quality, kelvin and wattage of bulbs. These factors all play a part in the introduction of a new coral (wild or maricultured). The 1000 watters we run, is out of necesity as our raceways are 6 feet wide and that was the only bulb that we could find that would effectively illuminate the entire raceway (the bulbs are located 2 and half feet above the water surface).

Another question that I noticed was why do we run 20K's over 10K's, the answer is simple and short, I want nice looking corals not ones that grow through the roof. Folks that have 10K's without supplementation always seem to be the ones that post about how their corals look in their reef. Please don't take offense sirrus6 but you are running 10K XM's without any actinic supplementation (from what I can see from your photos). I am sorry to announce that your some corals will NEVER look the way that we photographed. I am always bummed to see folks judging us on how our corals look when they run 10K's even with supplementation. Now there are certain species that will remain true to the original photo no matter what bulb you might be running but those are few and far between (especially wild colonies). If you are running 10K's without a huge amount of actinics I would recommend staying away from most wild colonies as you will only be dissapointed. I only recommend an all 10k lighting scheme for folks that are starting out with frags, as they want these corals to grow and not to stay little sticks forever. Other than that I don't like them as they are too intense and the colors are always subdued just like in sirrus6 photographs.

If sirrus6 changed his bulbs to be say 14K's and 20k's or 20's and 10's then you should see these corals change back to their original colors as long as they are placed correctly in the system and your parameters are within reason. I have been dealing with this argument about kelvins for the last 5 years. It has always been a touchy subject and I am just giving my opinion but please don't bash my corals if you are running 10k's and are trying to keep wild colonies.

WILD or MARICULTURED COLONIES DO NOT LIKE 10k's!!! Most folks that are unhappy with us are running 10k's. They do not keep their color under them. Most folks that have a problem with us are running 10k's. With 10k's I see wild or mariculated corals go from beautiful to brown in a matter of days. In my system I can turn a brown A. hyacinthus into Raspberry with blue growing tips in a matter of weeks, and I do this without Zeovit or any other chemical on the market but this is with the 20K Helios that I run plus a huge refugium, ozone and heavy skimming.

So to pick on you a bit more sirrus6 I will break down the reasons why your corals that you recieved from us look like crap (please don't take offense as I am just doing this to point out what I have learned over that the 11 years that I have been selling corals over the internet).

First off the A. sarmentosa requires a medium amount of light and therefore does not like to be cooked by 10k's. It will adapt to these lighting conditions but it will never have the phosphorescent properties that are evident under 20k or 14k bulbs. I love A. sarmentosa because that are so neon but you take that away with a 10k bulb.

The A. hyacinthus is one of the most picky of any SPS out there. They are just tough! They require a huge amount of light and flow. If you do not give these to them they will always be a nasty brown. I usually place my A. hyacinthus within 5 inches of the surface of most reefs. If your A. hyacinthus has not responded for you, place it at the absolute top of your reef and see what happens. If you go to Fiji or any other location you will see that these are on the very top of the reef and they require the same within your reef. I have mentioned this in the past, but it is very important to match the level of any wild colony to where it is generally found in the ocean. If you do not provide this for the coral it will never respond in your home reef. I have noticed several RC members complaining about their poorly colored A. hyacinthus and I attribute this to incorrect placement. Even if you have 20k's and you place a coral at the incorrect depth and flow you will find that the color will be different. If you place an A. hyacinthus about half way in your system and you are wondering why it is not doing well then raise it to the very top and see what happens. If you do not have your rock structure elevated that high then you might need to make exception for this particular species.

The A. latistella that you received is the exact opposite. It does not like much light as these are collected at more than 30 feet (I have collected some as deep as 80 feet!) They especially do not like 10k's, much too intense and they will always be brown. If you cannot change your bulbs then I would recommend placing this at the very bottom of your reef. You might then see a change for the better. Remember folks that if you have a coral that is losing color and or receding it is probably a good idea to move it up or down depending on the species. If you are unsure or having problems then call us. Please don't wait and complain about us on a public thread. I have dealt with this exact issue so many times it isn't even funny.

Now for those folks with only 10k's, I have some advice. Please call us to find out what species do well under this kelvin and where they should be placed. Unfortunately they will look completely different that what we have photographed. We cannot unfortunately match everyones request when it comes to photographing the corals (flash, 10K's, not top down, etc). We send out so many corals that we have a very tough time keeping up with the business at hand. Now if you do have 10K's I would recommend sticking with the designer named corals (Tort, PM's, Scripps, Tubs, etc..) These will be small frags but they will hold their color and should flourish for you.

One more note about the hardiness of wild colonies. I have found that as long as you provide the elements that the corals require (sufficient wattage, correct kelvin, correct placement, lots and lots of flow (50 times turnover or more), clean water, good skimming, some supplemental feedings (2x per week) with food that is small enough for them to digest and stable conditions I have found that they are very hardy. You just have to provide them with these basic needs and they will thrive. Now if this is not possible then maybe call us and ask us what will do well for you. Maybe start with a easier wild colony to see how it will do for you. But remember that 10k's will alwys make our corals looks and do differently than what our photos represent. It is a different league with folks that keep only 10k's and have never tried 20k's for a long period of time.

And one note about photoshop, we actually remove saturation on some of our photos because they are so intense. Also remember that we are not perfect. We do make mistakes and sometimes photos are placed up on our site where that camera has no idea what to do with it. I do apologize for these instances. We try our best. But our corals cannot be judged by a few corals that always get pointed out over others. That particular Red Stag A. indonesia, was that RED in our system but I had it placed too high under our 1000 watters and therefore the evil photoshop cry echoed through RC. The Grapes and Limeade A. nasuta is another that I never hear the end of. If folks saw this piece in person, in our warehouse under our lights you would see for yourself that we are not adding any color period! I have said this before but what is the point? I am not here to screw anybody. We are here to get returning customers. I try to be as ethical and honest as possible. That is how I am with my life and business. I do not want to mislead anyone. I want you to have corals in your system as they look in mine! I want the hobby to grow and thrive. I want us to save the ocean and all its inhabitants! I want to provide the best and healthiest corals so that we may be able to back up the ocean if something ever goes wrong with our precious planet. I want all this and more. I know it sounds haughty but that is what I want and this is my goal every day.

So why on earth would I want to screw anyone with a false coral represented by a doctored photo????

Chris @ RM

Phyl · 11/29/2006, 09:24 AM

You at least have the actinic supplementation, Hef. I think the color issue is worse if you only have that "crisp white", but it certainly seems that many of the corals don't like the 10Ks at all. Interesting read. Thanks for posting it for us!

coralnut99 · 11/29/2006, 09:38 AM

I'm not sure he's exactly "bashing" 10K's I think he's just going to great lengths to point out that his corals aren't photographed under 10K's and will never look the same under such lighting. He goes on to offer to help select what he thinks will be well-represented under 10K's. I think he also touches on the fact that there is a simple individual preferance for growth vs. appearance that goes with the selection of 10K, 14K, or 20K. Just my two bits on this one.
That thread is just TOO long, and re-hashes out points made on both sides of the argument a gazillion times. But that's what RC is about, sharing opinioins and experiences. It's funny to me how RM gets to be the center of threads like that when other sites show corals and background that are virtually royal blue.

Hef · 11/29/2006, 09:56 AM

You are correct, he's not really "Bashing" I was just looking for a good "grabbing" subject line.
I switched from 14k to 10k about few months back, and the growth has been tremendous. Along with the growth, comes Color - as we know that new growth is usually colorful. My big Efflo for instance, for the first time in over two years, actually has a full purple rim - some of it as big as 1/2" My Caps are gigantic, I need to give some of it away over the next couple weeks.
Of course some of my nicest stuff just never grows, but it does look great.
Running 20k is something I've never done, anybody else around running them?

coralnut99 · 11/29/2006, 10:14 AM

I don't think any of us gives enough weight to just how many variables there are involved here.
I run 150W DE 20K's over one of my 125's. An efflo at mid tank has changed colors twice and seems to be darkening again from going to a cream color. But has barely grown in over a year. Yet I have 3 RM torts at the very bottom of the tank with great yellow-green and blue flesh with blue and turquoise polyps that are growing really well.
In that same tank I have a RM A. Valida colony that I browned out pretty good when I was first getting the parameters in my prop system under control. A frag of that piece that stayed in my prop sytem now has light yellow flesh on the stem with bright yellow ployps and a royal purple tip. And that's under PC's!
So much mixing and matching to be done depending on species, and even individual specimens.

coralnut99 · 11/29/2006, 10:33 AM

PS. I tried running 10K's over that tank after having run 20K's. for me it was just a matter of aesthetics. I just love the blue-white color and the shimmer the tank has with the 20K's.
FWIW, I'm rapidly becoming a T5 convert. The colors achieved are just beyond what I've seen with 20K's (I run both 250W and 150W). I just bought a small monti cap that had a small piece of a different species of monti growing from the base. I only bought it because of the way the cap was wrapping itself around the fingers of the other species. In the store it was a rather drab brown. Under under t5's it's a really nice yellow-green.... and a pure gold color under t5 actinics! The tank that it's in was recently switched from a 250W SE 14K which was just cooking the shallow prop tank, to T5's.

Sk8r · 11/29/2006, 10:44 AM

10ks are good for growth. I have a crazily growing ac. aculeus that is only blue when you look at it from above. I'm thinking of switching to a higher k, but am not anxious to give up the growth for looks.

kkris · 11/29/2006, 08:09 PM

Hef
Which 10k bulbs are you running now? I am running 14K Phoenix like you used to, but growth could be faster. Which supplimental lighting are you using with the 10k?

Hef · 11/29/2006, 08:15 PM

10k XM with URI SuperActinic VHO. Yea, stuff definitly grows.

the tiler · 11/30/2006, 06:04 AM

I canot keep looking at his sight
Angelo you see this one?
http://www.reefermadness.us/RMD11175685.htm

IM gona go Broke

Jason

coralnut99 · 11/30/2006, 07:37 AM

Jason, I think I'll get there before ya, lol! Those Austeras are virtually bulletproof. Absolutely true-to-photo colors.

Hef · 11/30/2006, 08:53 AM

That is a nice piece, a little pricey though.

Do they grow?

coralnut99 · 11/30/2006, 09:20 AM

Hef, I was at Absolutely Fish a couple of weeks ago, and let's just say the price is at least comperable, and there was nothing in their sps diplays that came close to this Austera.
Believe me they do grow.

Hef · 11/30/2006, 10:36 AM

I wouldn't doubt that RM would be cheaper than an LFS. I'm sure if I saw that piece at Trop it would be up there also. Although sometimes they seem to value their pieces on Size rather than Looks, so you find might find a gem like that for less than $100.

It would be nice to have a piece like that grow into one of those corals that you can frag and not miss the piece that you cut off.

Jason, you were trying to get some fraggable colonies from RM about a year ago. Did you ever do that?

I'm about ready to clean out some corals from my tank and take a shot at some more desirable pieces. My tank seems to be very stable and healthy right now.

11/29/2006, 06:46 AM	#1
Hef Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Fair Haven NJ Posts: 2,291	10K Light Bashing Been following a thread over in the vendor forum. Someone is complaining about the Photos posted by Reefer Madness and how the actual corals never look like the photos. Here is the Thread Lots of opinions of course - both good and bad, Chris from Reefer Madness just posted this response last night. It very bluntly states that if you are running 10K lights (like me that your corals will Never look like the photos at RM. Dont know if I agree with what he says, but it is interesting reading. Here is his response. ************************************************** Hello there fellow Reefers, I am not sure if I should stick my neck into this thread but I feel that I have to as there are so many folks out there with complaints about our photographs and the coresponding corals that supposedly accurately represent those corals. There are so many factors to keeping corals that I can find myself getting lost when I try to give advice about placement, water quality, kelvin and wattage of bulbs. These factors all play a part in the introduction of a new coral (wild or maricultured). The 1000 watters we run, is out of necesity as our raceways are 6 feet wide and that was the only bulb that we could find that would effectively illuminate the entire raceway (the bulbs are located 2 and half feet above the water surface). Another question that I noticed was why do we run 20K's over 10K's, the answer is simple and short, I want nice looking corals not ones that grow through the roof. Folks that have 10K's without supplementation always seem to be the ones that post about how their corals look in their reef. Please don't take offense sirrus6 but you are running 10K XM's without any actinic supplementation (from what I can see from your photos). I am sorry to announce that your some corals will NEVER look the way that we photographed. I am always bummed to see folks judging us on how our corals look when they run 10K's even with supplementation. Now there are certain species that will remain true to the original photo no matter what bulb you might be running but those are few and far between (especially wild colonies). If you are running 10K's without a huge amount of actinics I would recommend staying away from most wild colonies as you will only be dissapointed. I only recommend an all 10k lighting scheme for folks that are starting out with frags, as they want these corals to grow and not to stay little sticks forever. Other than that I don't like them as they are too intense and the colors are always subdued just like in sirrus6 photographs. If sirrus6 changed his bulbs to be say 14K's and 20k's or 20's and 10's then you should see these corals change back to their original colors as long as they are placed correctly in the system and your parameters are within reason. I have been dealing with this argument about kelvins for the last 5 years. It has always been a touchy subject and I am just giving my opinion but please don't bash my corals if you are running 10k's and are trying to keep wild colonies. WILD or MARICULTURED COLONIES DO NOT LIKE 10k's!!! Most folks that are unhappy with us are running 10k's. They do not keep their color under them. Most folks that have a problem with us are running 10k's. With 10k's I see wild or mariculated corals go from beautiful to brown in a matter of days. In my system I can turn a brown A. hyacinthus into Raspberry with blue growing tips in a matter of weeks, and I do this without Zeovit or any other chemical on the market but this is with the 20K Helios that I run plus a huge refugium, ozone and heavy skimming. So to pick on you a bit more sirrus6 I will break down the reasons why your corals that you recieved from us look like crap (please don't take offense as I am just doing this to point out what I have learned over that the 11 years that I have been selling corals over the internet). First off the A. sarmentosa requires a medium amount of light and therefore does not like to be cooked by 10k's. It will adapt to these lighting conditions but it will never have the phosphorescent properties that are evident under 20k or 14k bulbs. I love A. sarmentosa because that are so neon but you take that away with a 10k bulb. The A. hyacinthus is one of the most picky of any SPS out there. They are just tough! They require a huge amount of light and flow. If you do not give these to them they will always be a nasty brown. I usually place my A. hyacinthus within 5 inches of the surface of most reefs. If your A. hyacinthus has not responded for you, place it at the absolute top of your reef and see what happens. If you go to Fiji or any other location you will see that these are on the very top of the reef and they require the same within your reef. I have mentioned this in the past, but it is very important to match the level of any wild colony to where it is generally found in the ocean. If you do not provide this for the coral it will never respond in your home reef. I have noticed several RC members complaining about their poorly colored A. hyacinthus and I attribute this to incorrect placement. Even if you have 20k's and you place a coral at the incorrect depth and flow you will find that the color will be different. If you place an A. hyacinthus about half way in your system and you are wondering why it is not doing well then raise it to the very top and see what happens. If you do not have your rock structure elevated that high then you might need to make exception for this particular species. The A. latistella that you received is the exact opposite. It does not like much light as these are collected at more than 30 feet (I have collected some as deep as 80 feet!) They especially do not like 10k's, much too intense and they will always be brown. If you cannot change your bulbs then I would recommend placing this at the very bottom of your reef. You might then see a change for the better. Remember folks that if you have a coral that is losing color and or receding it is probably a good idea to move it up or down depending on the species. If you are unsure or having problems then call us. Please don't wait and complain about us on a public thread. I have dealt with this exact issue so many times it isn't even funny. Now for those folks with only 10k's, I have some advice. Please call us to find out what species do well under this kelvin and where they should be placed. Unfortunately they will look completely different that what we have photographed. We cannot unfortunately match everyones request when it comes to photographing the corals (flash, 10K's, not top down, etc). We send out so many corals that we have a very tough time keeping up with the business at hand. Now if you do have 10K's I would recommend sticking with the designer named corals (Tort, PM's, Scripps, Tubs, etc..) These will be small frags but they will hold their color and should flourish for you. One more note about the hardiness of wild colonies. I have found that as long as you provide the elements that the corals require (sufficient wattage, correct kelvin, correct placement, lots and lots of flow (50 times turnover or more), clean water, good skimming, some supplemental feedings (2x per week) with food that is small enough for them to digest and stable conditions I have found that they are very hardy. You just have to provide them with these basic needs and they will thrive. Now if this is not possible then maybe call us and ask us what will do well for you. Maybe start with a easier wild colony to see how it will do for you. But remember that 10k's will alwys make our corals looks and do differently than what our photos represent. It is a different league with folks that keep only 10k's and have never tried 20k's for a long period of time. And one note about photoshop, we actually remove saturation on some of our photos because they are so intense. Also remember that we are not perfect. We do make mistakes and sometimes photos are placed up on our site where that camera has no idea what to do with it. I do apologize for these instances. We try our best. But our corals cannot be judged by a few corals that always get pointed out over others. That particular Red Stag A. indonesia, was that RED in our system but I had it placed too high under our 1000 watters and therefore the evil photoshop cry echoed through RC. The Grapes and Limeade A. nasuta is another that I never hear the end of. If folks saw this piece in person, in our warehouse under our lights you would see for yourself that we are not adding any color period! I have said this before but what is the point? I am not here to screw anybody. We are here to get returning customers. I try to be as ethical and honest as possible. That is how I am with my life and business. I do not want to mislead anyone. I want you to have corals in your system as they look in mine! I want the hobby to grow and thrive. I want us to save the ocean and all its inhabitants! I want to provide the best and healthiest corals so that we may be able to back up the ocean if something ever goes wrong with our precious planet. I want all this and more. I know it sounds haughty but that is what I want and this is my goal every day. So why on earth would I want to screw anyone with a false coral represented by a doctored photo???? Chris @ RM

11/29/2006, 09:24 AM	#2
Phyl Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 2,713	You at least have the actinic supplementation, Hef. I think the color issue is worse if you only have that "crisp white", but it certainly seems that many of the corals don't like the 10Ks at all. Interesting read. Thanks for posting it for us! __________________ Phyllis Current Tank Info: 180 RR

11/29/2006, 09:38 AM	#3
coralnut99 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Bushkill, PA Posts: 3,632	I'm not sure he's exactly "bashing" 10K's I think he's just going to great lengths to point out that his corals aren't photographed under 10K's and will never look the same under such lighting. He goes on to offer to help select what he thinks will be well-represented under 10K's. I think he also touches on the fact that there is a simple individual preferance for growth vs. appearance that goes with the selection of 10K, 14K, or 20K. Just my two bits on this one. That thread is just TOO long, and re-hashes out points made on both sides of the argument a gazillion times. But that's what RC is about, sharing opinioins and experiences. It's funny to me how RM gets to be the center of threads like that when other sites show corals and background that are virtually royal blue. __________________ Why can't my wife see this stuff as an investment? Current Tank Info: way too much to list, and still adding more!

11/29/2006, 10:14 AM	#5
coralnut99 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Bushkill, PA Posts: 3,632	I don't think any of us gives enough weight to just how many variables there are involved here. I run 150W DE 20K's over one of my 125's. An efflo at mid tank has changed colors twice and seems to be darkening again from going to a cream color. But has barely grown in over a year. Yet I have 3 RM torts at the very bottom of the tank with great yellow-green and blue flesh with blue and turquoise polyps that are growing really well. In that same tank I have a RM A. Valida colony that I browned out pretty good when I was first getting the parameters in my prop system under control. A frag of that piece that stayed in my prop sytem now has light yellow flesh on the stem with bright yellow ployps and a royal purple tip. And that's under PC's! So much mixing and matching to be done depending on species, and even individual specimens. __________________ Why can't my wife see this stuff as an investment? Current Tank Info: way too much to list, and still adding more!

11/29/2006, 10:33 AM	#6
coralnut99 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Bushkill, PA Posts: 3,632	PS. I tried running 10K's over that tank after having run 20K's. for me it was just a matter of aesthetics. I just love the blue-white color and the shimmer the tank has with the 20K's. FWIW, I'm rapidly becoming a T5 convert. The colors achieved are just beyond what I've seen with 20K's (I run both 250W and 150W). I just bought a small monti cap that had a small piece of a different species of monti growing from the base. I only bought it because of the way the cap was wrapping itself around the fingers of the other species. In the store it was a rather drab brown. Under under t5's it's a really nice yellow-green.... and a pure gold color under t5 actinics! The tank that it's in was recently switched from a 250W SE 14K which was just cooking the shallow prop tank, to T5's. __________________ Why can't my wife see this stuff as an investment? Current Tank Info: way too much to list, and still adding more!

11/29/2006, 09:56 AM	#4
Hef Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Fair Haven NJ Posts: 2,291	You are correct, he's not really "Bashing" I was just looking for a good "grabbing" subject line. I switched from 14k to 10k about few months back, and the growth has been tremendous. Along with the growth, comes Color - as we know that new growth is usually colorful. My big Efflo for instance, for the first time in over two years, actually has a full purple rim - some of it as big as 1/2" My Caps are gigantic, I need to give some of it away over the next couple weeks. Of course some of my nicest stuff just never grows, but it does look great. Running 20k is something I've never done, anybody else around running them?

11/29/2006, 10:44 AM	#7
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	10ks are good for growth. I have a crazily growing ac. aculeus that is only blue when you look at it from above. I'm thinking of switching to a higher k, but am not anxious to give up the growth for looks. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

11/29/2006, 08:09 PM	#8
kkris Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: wyckoff, nj Posts: 429	Hef Which 10k bulbs are you running now? I am running 14K Phoenix like you used to, but growth could be faster. Which supplimental lighting are you using with the 10k?

11/29/2006, 08:15 PM	#9
Hef Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Fair Haven NJ Posts: 2,291	10k XM with URI SuperActinic VHO. Yea, stuff definitly grows.

11/30/2006, 06:04 AM	#10
the tiler Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Oldwick NJ Posts: 1,769	I canot keep looking at his sight Angelo you see this one? http://www.reefermadness.us/RMD11175685.htm IM gona go Broke Jason __________________ The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Current Tank Info: 28 Gal JBJ HQI

11/30/2006, 07:37 AM	#11
coralnut99 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Bushkill, PA Posts: 3,632	Jason, I think I'll get there before ya, lol! Those Austeras are virtually bulletproof. Absolutely true-to-photo colors. __________________ Why can't my wife see this stuff as an investment? Current Tank Info: way too much to list, and still adding more!

11/30/2006, 08:53 AM	#12
Hef Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Fair Haven NJ Posts: 2,291	That is a nice piece, a little pricey though. Do they grow?

11/30/2006, 09:20 AM	#13
coralnut99 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Bushkill, PA Posts: 3,632	Hef, I was at Absolutely Fish a couple of weeks ago, and let's just say the price is at least comperable, and there was nothing in their sps diplays that came close to this Austera. Believe me they do grow. __________________ Why can't my wife see this stuff as an investment? Current Tank Info: way too much to list, and still adding more!

11/30/2006, 10:36 AM	#14
Hef Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Fair Haven NJ Posts: 2,291	I wouldn't doubt that RM would be cheaper than an LFS. I'm sure if I saw that piece at Trop it would be up there also. Although sometimes they seem to value their pieces on Size rather than Looks, so you find might find a gem like that for less than $100. It would be nice to have a piece like that grow into one of those corals that you can frag and not miss the piece that you cut off. Jason, you were trying to get some fraggable colonies from RM about a year ago. Did you ever do that? I'm about ready to clean out some corals from my tank and take a shot at some more desirable pieces. My tank seems to be very stable and healthy right now.