How not to ship.....in winter, ugly pics!

Meisen · 12/13/2006, 02:06 PM

Well,

Got a frag today via fedex and it pretty much shows everything that you should not do when shipping a live animal.

Here is the packing material

Here is the result- dead tyree echino!

OK so who can tell me what went wrong here

?

Meisen · 12/13/2006, 02:08 PM

Two things you cant really make out from the pic:

-Heat pack was cold, probably a handwarmer not a livestock pack
-it was folded into that scrap of cardboard and right underneath the frag

dcombs44 · 12/13/2006, 02:49 PM

I'd ask you where you ordered from, but I'm not sure we're supposed to do that on here.

Was this shipped overnight?

ACBlinky · 12/13/2006, 03:43 PM

How sad, sorry to see it didn't arrive well packed and healthy. I'd put the coral into a QT and cross your fingers, you never know; with a little TLC and time it may make a recovery.

skeeter-doc · 12/13/2006, 03:47 PM

wow, that looks pretty bad, I hope you get your money back!

GregEMT · 12/13/2006, 03:51 PM

It looked well insulated. How was the frag bagged? Double, well tied?

FedEx are jerks soemtimes, was the box beat up?

Meisen · 12/13/2006, 03:55 PM

Right, I think the shipper would prefer to remain anonymous(!)

Box arrived ok, fedex did their part. The heat pack was right underneath the bag of water not to mention the huge gaps between the styro.

The coral tissue was floating around in the water when it arrived so I'm not going to poison my system with a dead coral.

Just sad to see that despite plenty of info online how to pack things correctly, people do this still.

Meisen · 12/13/2006, 03:57 PM

What I imagine happened was that the heat pack got really hot for a couple of hours, cooked to coral it was up against and then cooled off. It was near freezing here last night so when the box came in without an airtight seal or a heat source, it died (if it wasnt dead from overheating already).

sean48183 · 12/13/2006, 06:09 PM

That's why I never buy anything thru the mail. I have the lfs order me anything i want and I make sure it's healthy before I buy it. It might cost a little more but I feel it is worth it.

dvmsn · 12/13/2006, 06:53 PM

Echinos are really tough. There is some good tissue left.

newtanksmell · 12/13/2006, 06:54 PM

Sorry for the loss.

While I continue to see these horror stories, I have done three deals....two with private parties and one with a frag farmer. Everything has been professionally packed, arrived healthy and are doing well.

Perhaps I should quit while I'm ahead.

fishdoc11 · 12/13/2006, 07:41 PM

Good reason to only ship in the spring and fall when the weather is mild.........no heat or ice packs needed. I've shipped and recieved corals(mostly sps) many times during those times and rarely lost anything.

JMO and there are proper ways to ship things this time of year. I really hate heat packs though. I have had people come and get frags at my house and throw heat packs straight into their coolers when it was 60 degrees outside and they were only an hour from their house.

Chris

lpkirby · 12/13/2006, 07:51 PM

Sorry to hear about the lost. What is the shipper doing for you?

Can you give me the link on how to ship correctly, I am curious and never seen it.

Thank you,

Michael Mota · 12/13/2006, 08:15 PM

I would say it is not the shippers fault. The person or company that sent it is totally at fault here. Bad, really bad way to pack something. If I may say so.

Meisen · 12/13/2006, 11:01 PM

It was a return of a frag that the buyer wasnt happy with. I offered a refund if he were to get the frag back to me and thats how he sent it.

Of course he wants his $$ back still. Should I give it to him even though he has been rude, killed my frag and now is bashing me?

lpkirby · 12/13/2006, 11:05 PM

WOW... Would I give him a refund????? How did he send it back to you? Next Day and who paid to have it shipped back to you. Also I would be interested in a frag if you have more? How much?

Meisen · 12/13/2006, 11:10 PM

His friend paid using their work account I think. It went via fedex next day priority. He should be able to get his shipping charge back b/c they delived a couple hours late (supposed to be there by 10:30, arrived closer to 12:30.

I offered to meet him close to where he lives (and 2 hours from where I live) especially since it has been cold but he did not want to do that.

matttaylor · 12/13/2006, 11:16 PM

Keep YOUR money. If i were in your shoes, i'd keep it as well. The other party in this transaction obviously didn't take enough care to ship the frag back to you in the same manner you sent it out in (i assume). Was this a person to person trade, or are you running a business? If you have a business i hope you have a return policy in place that might help prevent these kinds of problems. If however you just sold a frag to a fellow reefer then he is fully to blame for the death of the coral and he should bare the financial responsibility.

PM me if you need any other info about this situation. And whatever you do, try to keep personal info out of the public eye in order to maintain a responsible and "adult" appearance in this situation

Meisen · 12/13/2006, 11:23 PM

It was a person to person trade....but I do try to conduct myself with a sense of honesty and fairness so I have definitely bent over backward trying to come up with a solution. At this point though, I think I am done.

Thanks for the good advice Matt. I have no intention of revealing who this person is as you suggest....it would only result in both of us getting banned in all likelyhood.

lpkirby · 12/13/2006, 11:28 PM

Matt has good advice, and I agree keep your money..

As my momma always said..... Take the high road!

Leon

Meisen · 12/13/2006, 11:54 PM

By the way, here is a good thread that covers shipping properly:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hipping+safely

Trying to turn my fairly negative post around into a positive. Cus thats just the kinda guy I am!

phil5613 · 12/13/2006, 11:56 PM

Just a thought about returning the money. How do you know this piece wasnt already that bad off when it went in the box and it was easy to blame the shipping? I would offer to split the cost only if the shipper can show proof it was alive and well when it went in the box

paininthewrasse · 12/14/2006, 12:10 AM

I was the shipper, and the thing is that Mark didnt sell me a real tyree LE at all... It was not watermelon. I have a thread from before w/ pics, I will dig it up.. I went back and forth with him, he said to wait and let it color up.. it never happened..

Basically I bought this at a frag swap, and he said it was tyree yadda yadaa he knew Mr. Tyree yadda yadda..

He also sold Tubs blue zoas to my neighbor, and they are not tubs blue zoas at all.. he misrepresented his item, and I've came into contact w/ other reefers who he has taken as well.

I contacted him last thursday or friday I think, and said i'd like to ship it back to him to get my $ back. He said fine but wait because of the snow.. No problem. I waited and decided the day before yesterday, it was time to send. I PMed him and said I'd send it the next day. Well my mother and brother were in a car accident, so obviously this coral was not my top priority. I didnt get a chance to contact him and tell him it wasnt coming until later that evening.. so in response i get a nasty PM from mark saying that hes been more then fair in all of this, and really he hasnt because all hes done is pm me back and forth! I said I was sorry for making him "shuffle around his family and plans" and that it was really out of my hands.. i wish I could have shipped, and that my family wasnt in a car accident... Anyway in the PM he also said that if I didnt ship by THAT NIGHT and let him know by 6pm I couldnt get my refund until Jan sometime. This was at about 8:30 in the evening just after I returned home from the hospital. I packed it up and sent it out shortly after (fedex closes at 9) I'm 19 and I work 2 jobs to make ends meet and I used my aunts fedex acct and gave her the cash to send it, so now im out the original cost of the frag as well as the cost of shipping..

Theres my story so Mark you could quit acting like a hero now

Meisen · 12/14/2006, 12:16 AM

Well see thats why there wont be any refund.

Mods, please close this.

paininthewrasse · 12/14/2006, 12:18 AM

Why close the thread? This could be a learning experience for everyone. Isnt everything I said in my post the truth? Thats exactly what I PMed you.

12/13/2006, 02:06 PM	#1
Meisen Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,108	How not to ship.....in winter, ugly pics! Well, Got a frag today via fedex and it pretty much shows everything that you should not do when shipping a live animal. Here is the packing material Here is the result- dead tyree echino! OK so who can tell me what went wrong here ? __________________ "You dont know where they've been.....There are all kinds of animals pooping in them" -my lovely wife, only she didn't say poop. Current Tank Info: Tankless. Like your water heater.

12/13/2006, 02:08 PM	#2
Meisen Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,108	Two things you cant really make out from the pic: -Heat pack was cold, probably a handwarmer not a livestock pack -it was folded into that scrap of cardboard and right underneath the frag __________________ "You dont know where they've been.....There are all kinds of animals pooping in them" -my lovely wife, only she didn't say poop. Current Tank Info: Tankless. Like your water heater.

12/13/2006, 02:49 PM	#3
dcombs44 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 2,913	I'd ask you where you ordered from, but I'm not sure we're supposed to do that on here. Was this shipped overnight? __________________ Current Setup: 10 Gallon Skimmerless Zoanthid Tank Lighting: Single 175 Watt Metal Halide (14,000 K Hamilton Lamp) Filtration: 10 gallon sump/refugium and Phosban Reactor Return: Mag Drive 700 Controller: ReefKeeper Lite (Basic Version) Circulation: TBD Age of System: Build is in Progress

12/13/2006, 03:43 PM	#4
ACBlinky Premium Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Peterborough, ON, Canada Posts: 4,954 Blog Entries: 20	How sad, sorry to see it didn't arrive well packed and healthy. I'd put the coral into a QT and cross your fingers, you never know; with a little TLC and time it may make a recovery. __________________ "The cure for anything is salt water: sweat, tears, or the sea." - Isak Dinesen Current Tank Info: 150g mixed reef, 30g sump/refugium, LED lighting, 100lbs LR, coral beauty, flame angel, blue & yellow tangs, gobies, damsels, 6-line wrasse, lawnmower blenny, dottyback, clown pair, rabbitfish, shrimp, crabs, CUC.

12/13/2006, 03:55 PM	#7
Meisen Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,108	Right, I think the shipper would prefer to remain anonymous(!) Box arrived ok, fedex did their part. The heat pack was right underneath the bag of water not to mention the huge gaps between the styro. The coral tissue was floating around in the water when it arrived so I'm not going to poison my system with a dead coral. Just sad to see that despite plenty of info online how to pack things correctly, people do this still. __________________ "You dont know where they've been.....There are all kinds of animals pooping in them" -my lovely wife, only she didn't say poop. Current Tank Info: Tankless. Like your water heater.

12/13/2006, 03:47 PM	#5
skeeter-doc Moved On Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: TX Posts: 1,643	wow, that looks pretty bad, I hope you get your money back!

12/13/2006, 03:51 PM	#6
GregEMT Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 134	It looked well insulated. How was the frag bagged? Double, well tied? FedEx are jerks soemtimes, was the box beat up?

12/13/2006, 03:57 PM	#8
Meisen Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,108	What I imagine happened was that the heat pack got really hot for a couple of hours, cooked to coral it was up against and then cooled off. It was near freezing here last night so when the box came in without an airtight seal or a heat source, it died (if it wasnt dead from overheating already). __________________ "You dont know where they've been.....There are all kinds of animals pooping in them" -my lovely wife, only she didn't say poop. Current Tank Info: Tankless. Like your water heater.

12/13/2006, 06:09 PM	#9
sean48183 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: michigan Posts: 1,577	That's why I never buy anything thru the mail. I have the lfs order me anything i want and I make sure it's healthy before I buy it. It might cost a little more but I feel it is worth it.

12/13/2006, 06:53 PM	#10
dvmsn Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Surfside Beach, SC Posts: 3,008	Echinos are really tough. There is some good tissue left.

12/13/2006, 06:54 PM	#11
newtanksmell Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 825	Sorry for the loss. While I continue to see these horror stories, I have done three deals....two with private parties and one with a frag farmer. Everything has been professionally packed, arrived healthy and are doing well. Perhaps I should quit while I'm ahead. __________________ What in the name of corn on the cob is going on here ? - Buffalobunch Current Tank Info: 120g,40g sump,15g ref. 15g DIY ATO, 2x Seio 1100s w/ cont, 2x250 Ham HQI w/ 14K Phoenix, 440 ARO VHO, ASM G3 modded, MDQX4,MDC2 CL. And a buttload of PVC.

12/13/2006, 07:41 PM	#12
fishdoc11 catch and release Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Old Hickory,TN Posts: 13,237	Good reason to only ship in the spring and fall when the weather is mild.........no heat or ice packs needed. I've shipped and recieved corals(mostly sps) many times during those times and rarely lost anything. JMO and there are proper ways to ship things this time of year. I really hate heat packs though. I have had people come and get frags at my house and throw heat packs straight into their coolers when it was 60 degrees outside and they were only an hour from their house. Chris __________________ "Try to learn something about everything and everything about something" -- Thomas H. Huxley Current Tank Info: 70 gallon mixed reef Last edited by fishdoc11; 12/13/2006 at 08:15 PM.

12/13/2006, 07:51 PM	#13
lpkirby Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hempstead, TX Posts: 701	Sorry to hear about the lost. What is the shipper doing for you? Can you give me the link on how to ship correctly, I am curious and never seen it. Thank you,

12/13/2006, 08:15 PM	#14
Michael Mota Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ma. Posts: 850	I would say it is not the shippers fault. The person or company that sent it is totally at fault here. Bad, really bad way to pack something. If I may say so.

12/13/2006, 11:01 PM	#15
Meisen Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,108	It was a return of a frag that the buyer wasnt happy with. I offered a refund if he were to get the frag back to me and thats how he sent it. Of course he wants his $$ back still. Should I give it to him even though he has been rude, killed my frag and now is bashing me? __________________ "You dont know where they've been.....There are all kinds of animals pooping in them" -my lovely wife, only she didn't say poop. Current Tank Info: Tankless. Like your water heater.

12/13/2006, 11:05 PM	#16
lpkirby Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hempstead, TX Posts: 701	WOW... Would I give him a refund????? How did he send it back to you? Next Day and who paid to have it shipped back to you. Also I would be interested in a frag if you have more? How much?

12/13/2006, 11:10 PM	#17
Meisen Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,108	His friend paid using their work account I think. It went via fedex next day priority. He should be able to get his shipping charge back b/c they delived a couple hours late (supposed to be there by 10:30, arrived closer to 12:30. I offered to meet him close to where he lives (and 2 hours from where I live) especially since it has been cold but he did not want to do that. __________________ "You dont know where they've been.....There are all kinds of animals pooping in them" -my lovely wife, only she didn't say poop. Current Tank Info: Tankless. Like your water heater.

12/13/2006, 11:16 PM	#18
matttaylor Jeeper in my free time Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: 3300', Nevada County, CA Posts: 921	Keep YOUR money. If i were in your shoes, i'd keep it as well. The other party in this transaction obviously didn't take enough care to ship the frag back to you in the same manner you sent it out in (i assume). Was this a person to person trade, or are you running a business? If you have a business i hope you have a return policy in place that might help prevent these kinds of problems. If however you just sold a frag to a fellow reefer then he is fully to blame for the death of the coral and he should bare the financial responsibility. PM me if you need any other info about this situation. And whatever you do, try to keep personal info out of the public eye in order to maintain a responsible and "adult" appearance in this situation __________________ -Matt Current Tank Info: 150 softie garden

12/13/2006, 11:23 PM	#19
Meisen Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,108	It was a person to person trade....but I do try to conduct myself with a sense of honesty and fairness so I have definitely bent over backward trying to come up with a solution. At this point though, I think I am done. Thanks for the good advice Matt. I have no intention of revealing who this person is as you suggest....it would only result in both of us getting banned in all likelyhood. __________________ "You dont know where they've been.....There are all kinds of animals pooping in them" -my lovely wife, only she didn't say poop. Current Tank Info: Tankless. Like your water heater.

12/13/2006, 11:28 PM	#20
lpkirby Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hempstead, TX Posts: 701	Matt has good advice, and I agree keep your money.. As my momma always said..... Take the high road! Leon

12/13/2006, 11:54 PM	#21
Meisen Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,108	By the way, here is a good thread that covers shipping properly: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hipping+safely Trying to turn my fairly negative post around into a positive. Cus thats just the kinda guy I am! __________________ "You dont know where they've been.....There are all kinds of animals pooping in them" -my lovely wife, only she didn't say poop. Current Tank Info: Tankless. Like your water heater.

12/13/2006, 11:56 PM	#22
phil5613 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wheaton IL Posts: 428	Just a thought about returning the money. How do you know this piece wasnt already that bad off when it went in the box and it was easy to blame the shipping? I would offer to split the cost only if the shipper can show proof it was alive and well when it went in the box __________________ Its always this way sometimes Current Tank Info: getting back into the addiction!

12/14/2006, 12:10 AM	#23
paininthewrasse Moved On Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Indiana, but I work in Elmhurst Posts: 1,617	I was the shipper, and the thing is that Mark didnt sell me a real tyree LE at all... It was not watermelon. I have a thread from before w/ pics, I will dig it up.. I went back and forth with him, he said to wait and let it color up.. it never happened.. Basically I bought this at a frag swap, and he said it was tyree yadda yadaa he knew Mr. Tyree yadda yadda.. He also sold Tubs blue zoas to my neighbor, and they are not tubs blue zoas at all.. he misrepresented his item, and I've came into contact w/ other reefers who he has taken as well. I contacted him last thursday or friday I think, and said i'd like to ship it back to him to get my $ back. He said fine but wait because of the snow.. No problem. I waited and decided the day before yesterday, it was time to send. I PMed him and said I'd send it the next day. Well my mother and brother were in a car accident, so obviously this coral was not my top priority. I didnt get a chance to contact him and tell him it wasnt coming until later that evening.. so in response i get a nasty PM from mark saying that hes been more then fair in all of this, and really he hasnt because all hes done is pm me back and forth! I said I was sorry for making him "shuffle around his family and plans" and that it was really out of my hands.. i wish I could have shipped, and that my family wasnt in a car accident... Anyway in the PM he also said that if I didnt ship by THAT NIGHT and let him know by 6pm I couldnt get my refund until Jan sometime. This was at about 8:30 in the evening just after I returned home from the hospital. I packed it up and sent it out shortly after (fedex closes at 9) I'm 19 and I work 2 jobs to make ends meet and I used my aunts fedex acct and gave her the cash to send it, so now im out the original cost of the frag as well as the cost of shipping.. Theres my story so Mark you could quit acting like a hero now

12/14/2006, 12:16 AM	#24
Meisen Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,108	Well see thats why there wont be any refund. Mods, please close this. __________________ "You dont know where they've been.....There are all kinds of animals pooping in them" -my lovely wife, only she didn't say poop. Current Tank Info: Tankless. Like your water heater.

12/14/2006, 12:18 AM	#25
paininthewrasse Moved On Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Indiana, but I work in Elmhurst Posts: 1,617	Why close the thread? This could be a learning experience for everyone. Isnt everything I said in my post the truth? Thats exactly what I PMed you.