fuge

808Rob · 05/21/2010, 09:53 PM

what is the ideal depth of a refugium for hosting macroalgae and LR rubble? what should the total depth be with a 4" DSB?

tozzi · 05/21/2010, 10:01 PM

I would say more like 6-8 " for a dsb

808Rob · 05/21/2010, 10:13 PM

what if no DSB 8" as well?

tozzi · 05/21/2010, 10:19 PM

You dont need any sand for a ref for macro. Rubble and rock will work too. Some people are 100% against sand cause it traps stuff, gets like a septic system

Tuscaquatics · 05/21/2010, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tozzi

You dont need any sand for a ref for macro. Rubble and rock will work too. Some people are 100% against sand cause it traps stuff, gets like a septic system

That's because they don't know how to set up a proper fuge. You don't send raw water into it. You must put the fuge AFTER your skimmer and mechanical filtration. Mine is fed from the return section. No sewage. When I want to feed the pods and stuff a little I toss in some shrimp pellets and they're gone by the next day.

Also you need a properly stocked fuge with a variety of pods, snails, brittle stars, etc. They will slowly turn the sand bed over naturally and keep it alive. People have problems with DSBs when they have 6 inches of dead sand that never gets turned over. But you have to have the critters to do it slowly and naturally so as not to upset the delicate bacteria.

tozzi · 05/21/2010, 10:33 PM

I was simply sayin that if you just want a ref for growing macro you really dont need sand

808Rob · 05/21/2010, 10:48 PM

So the ideal depths are?

Tuscaquatics · 05/21/2010, 10:53 PM

At least have 8 or 10 inches. I don't know how you could build one and have it any shallower than that. The bigger, the better.

sedor · 05/21/2010, 10:59 PM

The depth of your fuge should be a little more than your sump. If your setting it up in a baffled section of your sump just set the baffle 2" or so from the top of the tank. It can really be as deep as you want it, you just want to be able to have some cheato and rubble in there and allow the cheato to tumble without splashing to much.

808Rob · 05/21/2010, 11:09 PM

I was planning to remodel old wet/dry 3 compartment sump and I'm planning on the weir height. The first compartment will house the drain from the tank and the skimmer. The second compartment will be the return pump and the third is the fuge that will receive about 25% of the drain from the tank.

Tuscaquatics · 05/21/2010, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 808Rob

I was planning to remodel old wet/dry 3 compartment sump and I'm planning on the weir height. The first compartment will house the drain from the tank and the skimmer. The second compartment will be the return pump and the third is the fuge that will receive about 25% of the drain from the tank.

See, there's the problem right off the bat. You don't want to feed the fuge straight from the tank. This is what causes problems with the fuge.

You want to feed the fuge from the return. Ideally you would split the return line back to the tank with a "T" and a valve and send the 25% from there. In my setup, since I'm working with a smaller return pump than I really need, I just have a couple powerheads in the return section feeding the fuge.

The best way to run a refugium with macro is to try and send it as little organic matter as possible that can break down in the low flow environment. All you want going in there is nutrient-rich water to feed the algae. You can place food in there when, where and how you want in order to feed the critters if need be.

808Rob · 05/21/2010, 11:28 PM

So I can switch compartment to into the fuge and compartment 3 to the return chamber. Would that be too much flow into the fuge?
I've seen some designs on Melevsreef.com and my first design was one of the most popular on that site in which I assumed it was the best bet.

Tuscaquatics · 05/22/2010, 01:06 AM

Well, mine is a 30 gallon long tank, and it's laid out like this:

On the left, I have the skimmer compartment first, which is about 8 inches or so wide. The overflow from the tank drains into this.
Then I have a baffle, 13 inches high, that's raised an inch and a half off the bottom.
Then a couple inches for a bubble trap.
Then another 13 inch baffle, this time all the way to the bottom.

The water then spills over into the return section, which is about 7 inches wide. In here is my return pump and 2 small powerheads that I use to feed the fuge.
Then another 13 inch baffle all the way to the bottom.
The rest from there to the end is fuge.

The way you're talking about doing it will have 100% flow going through the fuge.

808Rob · 05/22/2010, 01:13 AM

So ideally you'd only need partial flow through the fuge? 100% flow through the fuge is too much?

Tuscaquatics · 05/22/2010, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 808Rob

So ideally you'd only need partial flow through the fuge? 100% flow through the fuge is too much?

Well, here's the thing. If you're talking about just a compartment to put macro, then you could do it like that and let it get all of the flow that's coming through the sump. Macroalgae on its own will take as much flow as you can give it.

But if you're talking about a true refugium, especially one with a DSB, then, no, you need to cut back the flow to something more like 25%. The DSB needs a slow flow with plenty of time for the water to sit in the sand and be cleansed by the anaerobic bacteria. The pods and other critters also need a calm environment to do their thing and multiply.

To give the macro in the fuge the flow it needs, you can do what I did and add a powerhead in there to keep the water blowing through chaeto and have it tumbling around.

808Rob · 05/22/2010, 02:24 AM

great explanation.. Thanks

cloak · 05/22/2010, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 808Rob

So the ideal depths are?

It kind of depends on YOU. A 2" sandbed can be mucked up just as fast as a 4" sandbed IMO. Where is your heart at? Do you want a RDSB, or do you have the time to test it in a DT?

doakota1 · 05/22/2010, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuscaquatics

Well, here's the thing. If you're talking about just a compartment to put macro, then you could do it like that and let it get all of the flow that's coming through the sump. Macroalgae on its own will take as much flow as you can give it.

But if you're talking about a true refugium, especially one with a DSB, then, no, you need to cut back the flow to something more like 25%. The DSB needs a slow flow with plenty of time for the water to sit in the sand and be cleansed by the anaerobic bacteria. The pods and other critters also need a calm environment to do their thing and multiply.

To give the macro in the fuge the flow it needs, you can do what I did and add a powerhead in there to keep the water blowing through chaeto and have it tumbling around.

some pictures would be great

Tuscaquatics · 05/22/2010, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doakota1

some pictures would be great

Pics of what? My sump/fuge?

doakota1 · 05/22/2010, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuscaquatics

Pics of what? My sump/fuge?

If possible, both please

808Rob · 05/23/2010, 12:13 AM

It'd be interesting to see your setup

Tuscaquatics · 05/23/2010, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 808Rob

It'd be interesting to see your setup

I'll update tomorrow with some pics of my setup.

05/21/2010, 09:53 PM	#1
808Rob Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 277	fuge what is the ideal depth of a refugium for hosting macroalgae and LR rubble? what should the total depth be with a 4" DSB?

05/21/2010, 10:01 PM	#2
tozzi Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: JERSEY Posts: 825	I would say more like 6-8 " for a dsb __________________ Your dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare a man whos the best with guns knives his bare hands A man whos been trained to ignore pain ignore weather eat things that would make a billy goat puke Current Tank Info: 215 sps

05/21/2010, 10:19 PM	#4
tozzi Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: JERSEY Posts: 825	You dont need any sand for a ref for macro. Rubble and rock will work too. Some people are 100% against sand cause it traps stuff, gets like a septic system __________________ Your dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare a man whos the best with guns knives his bare hands A man whos been trained to ignore pain ignore weather eat things that would make a billy goat puke Current Tank Info: 215 sps

05/21/2010, 10:33 PM	#6
tozzi Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: JERSEY Posts: 825	I was simply sayin that if you just want a ref for growing macro you really dont need sand __________________ Your dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare a man whos the best with guns knives his bare hands A man whos been trained to ignore pain ignore weather eat things that would make a billy goat puke Current Tank Info: 215 sps

05/21/2010, 10:59 PM	#9
sedor Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 4,689	The depth of your fuge should be a little more than your sump. If your setting it up in a baffled section of your sump just set the baffle 2" or so from the top of the tank. It can really be as deep as you want it, you just want to be able to have some cheato and rubble in there and allow the cheato to tumble without splashing to much. __________________ Ryan

05/21/2010, 10:13 PM	#3
808Rob Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 277	what if no DSB 8" as well?

05/21/2010, 10:48 PM	#7
808Rob Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 277	So the ideal depths are?

05/21/2010, 10:53 PM	#8
Tuscaquatics Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL Posts: 1,324	At least have 8 or 10 inches. I don't know how you could build one and have it any shallower than that. The bigger, the better.

05/21/2010, 11:09 PM	#10
808Rob Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 277	I was planning to remodel old wet/dry 3 compartment sump and I'm planning on the weir height. The first compartment will house the drain from the tank and the skimmer. The second compartment will be the return pump and the third is the fuge that will receive about 25% of the drain from the tank.

05/21/2010, 11:28 PM	#12
808Rob Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 277	So I can switch compartment to into the fuge and compartment 3 to the return chamber. Would that be too much flow into the fuge? I've seen some designs on Melevsreef.com and my first design was one of the most popular on that site in which I assumed it was the best bet. Last edited by 808Rob; 05/21/2010 at 11:55 PM.

05/22/2010, 01:06 AM	#13
Tuscaquatics Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL Posts: 1,324	Well, mine is a 30 gallon long tank, and it's laid out like this: On the left, I have the skimmer compartment first, which is about 8 inches or so wide. The overflow from the tank drains into this. Then I have a baffle, 13 inches high, that's raised an inch and a half off the bottom. Then a couple inches for a bubble trap. Then another 13 inch baffle, this time all the way to the bottom. The water then spills over into the return section, which is about 7 inches wide. In here is my return pump and 2 small powerheads that I use to feed the fuge. Then another 13 inch baffle all the way to the bottom. The rest from there to the end is fuge. The way you're talking about doing it will have 100% flow going through the fuge. Last edited by Tuscaquatics; 05/22/2010 at 01:11 AM.

05/22/2010, 01:13 AM	#14
808Rob Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 277	So ideally you'd only need partial flow through the fuge? 100% flow through the fuge is too much?

05/22/2010, 02:24 AM	#16
808Rob Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 277	great explanation.. Thanks

05/23/2010, 12:13 AM	#21
808Rob Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 277	It'd be interesting to see your setup

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